Talk:Jews

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GENETICS Genetically Ashkenazi and most other Jews are closely related to the current population of Lebanon. Don’t rely on photos alone look closely and you will find the great majority of Jews have the same genetic background as other populations in the Mediterranean basin. There are of course no pure Jews or any other ‘pure’ human groups. The bible describes King David as “ruddy” or “red haired” not what one might expect of a Levantine potentate. One of his military couriers is described as being a Cushie (probably from what is now Nubia in northern Sudan, Ethiopia or the Yemen). Someone noticeably darker than other there people in the Israelite community.


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Metapedia is amazing and I cant wait for it to explode on the internet as Wikipedia has done !!!

This article, although very factual, is, in places, somewhat contradictory. Allow me to elaborate : In the paragraph entitled Origins it says :

...the Edomite Jews became scattered over all of Europe, with the majority settling down in the Turko-Mongolian (Khazars) area of Russia, where they intermarried with the heathen Khazars who had converted en masse to Judaism. They are called Ashkenazi, and make up at least 90% of modern Jewry.,

yet below this it reads : The only Jews with Abrahamic blood flowing in their veins come from the Sephardim Jews, whose lineage can be traced back to Esau/Edom.

If Abrahamic Edomite(Esau) + Khazar = Ashkenazi Jews, then how can Sephardim Jews be The only Jews with Abrahamic blood flowing in their veins ?

Ashkenazi and Sephardic "Jews" are BOTH partly semitic in origin - although this in no way adds any weight to their argument that they are Jews. They are heavily bastardized Hebrews at best, becoming bastardized (simply meaning mixed) millenia ago and continuing to become even more bastardized millenia later in the Middle East and in Europe and Asia. --Truthseeker777 17:40, 4 February 2010 (CST)

Contents

Khazars

Could we present both view on the Khazars contribution to Judaism both cultural and racial? I know there is controversy over this topic but can we present both arguments in the article? - NatAll75 00:11, 10 June 2010 (UTC)


I did include the basis of the Khazar dogma, for the sake of being fair: "...that ashkenazi jews are primarily descended from turko-mongol khazars, because the rulers of the Khazar Khanate made judaism the khanate's official religion.". Rlbnorth, on the other hand, has twice now deleted all of the evidence that I added. That's nothing but persistent vandalism. I looked at Rlbnorth's edit history, and his only edits are those 2 acts of vandalism to the jew article, meaning that it is a single-purpose account. Please put an indefinite block on his IP if he vandalizes the page again. Researcher 02:56, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Wedding Photo

Jewish-Wedding.jpg

Though I suppose the legitimacy of that image is not in question, does anyone concur that it appears to be a little too "stage managed", and shows the subject in an unrealistic and overtly flattering light? Perhaps a more appropriate image could be substituted... Theodosius 01:59, 11 September 2010 (CEST)

Wikipedia?

Is someone able to find out which text of the article is by Wikipedia? The Wikipedia template is inserted and I think Wikipedia text is unacceptable because it is ridiculous to admit it in this context, one of the key articles. --DasGewisseEtwas 04:43, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Picture

The picture of the ugly girl gives a very misleading impression of typical Jewish appearance. I propose that it should be replaced by a better picture such as this photo of Alan Greenspan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alan_Greenspan_color_photo_portrait.jpg

Revert

Why was this reverted: [1]? That Jews should be descended of the Khazars is not a view held by scholars anymore and contradicted by genetic studies. See for example Richard Lynn's books. It would also invalidate for example the Jewish group evolutionary strategy theory. Vir 07:43, 21 October 2012 (CEST)

Ashkenazis as Khazars

To remove this connection or down-play it is very controversial and dubious. There are numerous works (even confessions from Jews themselves) forwarding this position as well archaelogical and ethno-lingustic evidence for a continuity between Khazars and the "Jews" of Eastern Europe. I see mention of Richard Lynn, as the figure upon whom this alleged "debunking" rests. Lynn may be a eugenicist, but that does not mean that he doesn't have other more unsavoury political agendas. He is a part of the official British academia, at the University of Ulster--people of his position are infamous for being pro-Jewish, stand-with-Israelers, regardless of other more "forbidden" views on race (see also John Derbyshire, a self-proclaimed Judeophile). Basileus 07:46, 21 October 2012 (CEST)

There are direct genetic studies contradicting this theory. It would also invalidate the Jewish group evolutionary strategy theory by Kevin Macdonald which relies on the Middle Eastern origin. We could include it, but then is should be described as disputed theory, not as a verified fact. Vir 07:49, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
I do not think, it is a good idea, if Vir deletes large portions of carefully built central articles , like this one. Therefore I reverted these deletions. Please in the future discuss on the talk page any deletions before doing. Also Vir eliminated a lot of illustrations from race articles, like Negroe skulls and the like, which seem to me also not that constructive contribution. Hu1 10:45, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
Which illustrations? Uncritically claiming that the Khazar theory is the truth make us look strange when it is a disputed theory. Again, it also would mean that Kevin MacDonalid is wrong! Vir 10:48, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
1. The yesterday deleted images.
2. The Kazar theory sounds absolutely logical. Sorry for K. McDonald, maybe he has problems there. Hu1 10:51, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
1. What images? You may be confusing me with Atlantid who removed a lot of images. Vir 10:54, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
2. I think Kevin's MacDonald's theory sounds absolutely logical. There have been a lot direct genetic studies recently which have contradicted the Khazar theory. Describing it as the truth, without qualifications, makes us look bad. Vir 10:56, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
1. Yes, it is possible that Atlantid removed the images.
2. I add a remark, that Kevin Mc Donald contradicted the theory, however, the large amounts of Jews must stem from somewhere, and they are certainly significantly more than 14 millions, the German metapedia estimates 0.5 milliard, which seems to be reasonable for me. Hu1 11:03, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
Just take a look at typical Europeans Jews. They do not look mongoloid. They look semitic. Vir 11:04, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
And it is not just Kevin MacDonald who disagrees. Every genetic study in recent years have found that Jews are from the Middle-East, not from the Khazars. Vir 11:15, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
Just look at the typical Jewish nose. North Asians have small noses, Arabs have big noses. Vir 11:18, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
Khazars are not mongoloid, but also huns, like us. Turanoid. We have black haired with brown eyes (some with blue), Brown haired with brown, green or blue eyes and blond haired with blue eyes, from the ancient stock. Khazars leaders went over to judaism, and the people and land got lost. Revilo Oliver wrote an excellent study about this.
Jews do not look like any other people in Europe. They look more like other semitic people in the Middle-East, possibly with some minor admixture of Europeans. The big nose is typical of semitic people. I again point out the genetic studies who have all confirmed that Jews are from the Middle-East. While we can certainly mention the Khazar theory, it should not be described at the verified truth.Vir 12:02, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
We have put together a page [2] of Jewish types. By far is middle-east look out not dominant. For example the red haired jew is not Middle-East type, but very typical. [3] Or Gábor Zsa-zsa with her snubby nose and blond hair. etc... Exactly the Khazar theory explains the Jewishness of the majority of them. Hu1 12:20, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
I disagree. Jews had some admixture with the surrounding people which explains that some Jews do not look typically Middle-Eastern. If the Khazar theory is right, why do Jews look so different from other Europeans? And again, all genetic studies contradict the Khazar theory. I am not against mentioning but declaring it to be the truth with qualification is strange. Vir 12:27, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
You yourself state Khazar theory with this: why do Jews look so different from other Europeans?.
Because they are Khazars. One (other) people. Hu1 12:31, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
Also genetic proves that. Huns, Hungarians, and also Jews are often blood group "B". In other parts of Europe 0, A and AB are more often. I am also "B" group, because hun. Hu1 12:32, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
That is one gene. Modern genetic studies look at hundreds of thousands or millions of genes. Anyhow, since it is a disputed theory I think we should describe it as such, not as the truth.Vir 12:39, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
I added, that some dispute the theory, and that should be enough. Completely disputing it is in Jewish interest Ah, we poor Jews, we are so few, so helpless, so threaten, etc... Hu1 12:46, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
Actually, not describing common scientific views on a subject helps the Jews. It makes us look unscientific and strange. Furthermore, if there are extremely many Jews, then their influence would actually be proportional to their numbers. It is when it is pointed out that are relatively few Jews with a very high influence that people start to wonder if something should be done regarding this. Vir 13:11, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
You may add a sub-section: Arguments against the Khazar theory, and put there your arguments. However, simply deletion of mentioning of the theory, as you tried, is not in the sense of Metapedia. Hu1 13:13, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
I added a such a section previously. I removed it from the lead since it is inappropriate to declare it as correct when it is disputed. The issue should be discussed in the body and not decided in the lead.Vir 13:21, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
I think, it belongs to the lead. Let's ask Basileus about this. Hu1 13:25, 21 October 2012 (CEST)


Regarding MacDonald's theory, I do not see how it would conflict with Ashkenazis being largely converted Khazars in origin, since he is an evolutionary psychologist. The ideology of Talmudic Judaism and secularised variations (Marxism, Zionism, etc) is the hermeneutic system which drives the project of world Jewish supremacy. It isn't some sort of "magic" in their blood, but an ideological poision passed on from parent to child. I notice David Duke also plays down the Khazar aspect, I don't understand why; Ashkenazis being Khazars undermines their "theological" justification for racial-supremacism ("chosen" people, Old Testament nonsense).

Just as you have gentile parents who believe in socialism or conservatism, their children are likely to be brought up to hold similar views. With gentiles they may later question these and find their own way (since this is viewed as simply political), but for Jews it is almost impossible because they're going up against a system interwoven with the very identity of their whole tribe. Obviously when the Khazars converted to Talmudism, there were semitic figures involved in converting them, passing on the poison from one group to another. So it isn't as if the project of Jewish supremacism has some sort of indepenent multipolar origin. The two "tribes" are ideologically bound, but the Ashkenazi Khazars as Asiatics, evolving more directly in struggles with strong nations, are more tenacious in their persuit of this (similar to Turks and other ethnically related groups). Basileus 04:42, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

Evolutionary psychology deals explicitly with how evolution have shaped genetics which have psychological effects. If you read MaDonald's works he is talking about how the Middle Eastern origin and later the eugenic practices of the religion have caused genetic changes.Vir 05:56, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Here is an online paper by MacDonald that explains some of his theories: [4] Vir 06:05, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
I downloaded the lengthy article. It considers Jews, as origined in the near east, long lived at the Mediterranean sea; Nobody doubts that in our article. His article does not contain the word "Khazar" at all. This means, either he does not know the Khazar theory, or he ignores it. But he does not doubt or refute it. Therefore I will take out from the article, that KMcDonald doubts it, because he obviously does not. This is not a subject for him, but for us. KMcDonald is one person in a long row of persons, who dealt with the Jewish question. A little element of a long chain, nothing more. Hu1 11:38, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
He states among other things that ethnocentrism is biologically caused. Not caused by the culture. Furthermore, both MacDonald and David Duke dismisses the Khazar theory: "Dr. David Duke and Kevin MacDonald go deep into the Issue of Jewish ethnic supremacism and the structure of Judaism and Jewish community structures and social behavior that ensures Jewish genetic continuity. The two also deal with the Khazar Theory and show that scientifically it is not rooted in reality" http://www.renseradioarchives.com/dduke/ Vir 12:30, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Considering that it is dismissed by so leading persons as David Duke and MacDonald it should not be stated as a verified fact in the intro. Who among recent critics of Jews have supported the Khazar theory? Vir 12:37, 22 October 2012 (CEST)


I have a few comments that may be relevant:

  • Modern genetic studies must not be attached too much weight to. They look at millions of genes without knowing what most of these genes' purpose is or how they interact. And there may be a "hidden force" that makes these studies have certain politically "desirable" outcomes, a Middle Eastern origin (as opposed to a Khazar origin) would be desirable for the zionists, wouldn't it?
  • BEHIND COMMUNISM By Frank L. Britton (Probably published in 1952), 65 pages. On page 11 Britton writes: "The "Turkish" people whom Wells mentions were the Chazars [Chazar=Khazar], who built an empire in south Russia in the 9th century A. D. This Chazar empire was infiltrated by large numbers of Byzantine Jews. By process of intermarriage and conversion these Chazars became identified as Jews and in all Jewish histories and encyclopedias the words "Chazar" and "Jew" are used interchangeably. In the tenth century a succession of invasions destroyed the Chazar empire and large numbers of these Chazar-Jews settled in the area of what is now Poland. Others found their way to western Europe and Spain, where they mingled with the already bastardized conglomeration of European Jewry."
  • @Vir: could you please give the specific date of the David Duke Radio Show in which the Khazar theory was dismissed? Thank you. (Galileo 14:47, 22 October 2012 (CEST)).
They do not need to need to know the purpose of the genes to see if they gene structure is similar. A book from 1952 is not an example of any recent important critics of Jews who have supported the Khazar theory. The times at two different shows are at the 5-04-12 show 46:45 and at the 05-07-12 show 25:15. Link: http://www.renseradioarchives.com/dduke/ Vir 15:27, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
I listened to this: [5]. David Duke does not care about Khasars, he cares about Jews and non Jews. Therefore I excluded David Duke. I know lots of his speeches, he never-ever doubted the Khasar theory. It is simply not his subject. Please do not re-add it unless you deliver a usable proof. Vir-s reference http://www.renseradioarchives.com/dduke/ is for me completely unusable. Please give the address of a downloadable file, that I can download and then point the given times.
I see it not reasonable to held here lengthy discussions about relatively unknown, questionable persons, like Kevin McDonald. If he doubts, it is his problem. I assume, he does not even doubt, he just does not know it. Hu1 19:05, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
[6] Time 25:15 (David Duke's view)
[7] Time 46:45 (Kevin MacDonald's view) Vir 19:31, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

Recent, recenter, most recent

Downloaded, listened 25:15 up to 36:41. I could not hear any sentence, where David Duke explicitely doubts the Chazar heritage of ashkenazy Jews. If you can hear that sentence, please copy the time stamp of it and write here the exact wording of the sentence. Hu1 19:31, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
30:38 I really don't think it's an accurate theory. Vir 19:33, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
27:59 There could have happened conversion Hu1 19:42, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
28:05 The genes say that there wasn't this wide conversion. Vir 19:51, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Please do the same thing with the (Kevin MacDonald's view). Sentence wording and sentence time stamp. Thanks. Hu1 19:34, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
48:07 Fundamentally they are related to each other around a Middle Eastern core. So Palestinians are actually their closest genetic relatives. So, the Khazar hypothesis would imply that the Azkhenazi Jews are completely separate from other Jewish groups. All the data are simply incompatible with that. There may have been a few, a small input from the Khazars Vir 19:48, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Yes, thanks, I listened up to 50:01, and he really denies the Chazar connection. However, he is a marginal, unimportant figure in Jewish research, therefore I would vote to keep the text, as it is now. David Duke excluded, Kevin McDonald mentioned as doubter. Hu1 19:57, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Obviously Kevin MacDonald is not unimportant and David Duke also thinks the Khazar theory is inaccurate. Vir 20:00, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Can you state any important recent critic of Jews who do think the Khazar theory is accurate? Vir 20:05, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

For David Duke this is a marginal, unimportant question. For general understanding of Jews this is important. All white national pages, that are worth of this name support the Khazar theory. It is logical, it is obvious. If new editors aggressively support very deviant views of general white national views, the question is obvious: Is this a Jew, or Jewish lackey, who tries to sell his judeophile agenda in an obscure way, in this case: recent, recenter, most recent, which is typical Jewish way of thinking. Hu1 20:18, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

Both David Duke and Kevin MacDonald are major critics of Jews. You seem to be arguing that they are Jewish lackeys. Again, can you state any recent important critics of Jews who do have supported the Khazar theory? Vir 20:26, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Since when are David Duke or Kevin McDonalds new editors of the metapedia? Hu1 20:28, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Please let me try to explain why this is important. In order to resist Jews we have to understand why they are successful. It is not just a religion but also a race. To quote David Duke: "Even for critics of this situation—and here at Davidduuke.com we are most certainly critics of it—one cannot but help to ponder how such a small group of people have achieved such power. The secret to Jewish Supremacist success lies in the racial origin of Jews and Judaism. Judaism is not, as the Jewish Supremacists claim, “just a religion.” It is in reality a racial religion, created by a genetically identifiable group of people, based on a group evolutionary strategy which has honed that race into a state of almost perpetual war with all non-Jewish people. As a result, as explained concisely by Professor Kevin Macdonald in his works, Jewish Supremacists work together as a tightly-knit cohesive group, always advancing their own interests at all costs." http://www.davidduke.com/?p=36546
Jews have always been among the foremost to deny humans race which would also deny that they are a race. For all I know the Khazar theory, which have been supported by some Jews, is actually a plot to mislead Jewish critics by making them deny that Jews are a distinct race. Vir 20:50, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

The point is not, if Jews are a race or not. The point is, that they are a conspiration against the rest of humanity. You have never heard about this?Hu1 20:55, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

Obviously I have. I agree with David Duke and Kevin MacDonald on this. The Khazar theory denies that Ashkenazi Jews are a race together with other Jews which serves Jewish interests very well. They have alwasy denied that races exists. The Khazar theory could well be a subtle Jewish plot. Vir 20:58, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Obviously? Hm.... David Duke does not care about Khazar problem. He cares - in contrast to you- about the Jewish problem. Do you know, what is pilpul? Hu1 21:01, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
I have given two very well known critics who reject the Khazar theory. You seem to be arguing that no supporting your own view on the Khazar theory is evidence of being a Jewish lackey. Yet you have still not presented any important critics of Jews who have supported the theory. Vir 21:07, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Do you know, what is pilpul?Hu1 21:08, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
I have presented two important critics of Jews who reject the theory. You have presented no important recent critic of Jews who support the Khazar theory. If we are going to continue to go around in circles, I suggest the discussion may be finished. Vir 21:18, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
You do not know, what is pilpul, do you? Hu1 21:34, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

Vote

I suggest we take a vote regarding if David Duke should be included as being against the Khazar theory. I have presented a source above where David Duke rejects the theory so I vote for including it. Hu seems to be against including that David Duke opposes the view that Hu himself favors. Other opinions? Vir 22:03, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

You seem not to understand English correctly. I say all the time, for David Duke this is a minor, unimportant question, because he cares for the Jewish question and not for the Khazar question. He does not belong to the "doubters" of the Khazar question, since he says There could have happened a conversion. Hu1 22:08, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

He also states immediately after that The genes say that there wasn't this wide conversion and later regarding the theory I don't think it's an accurate theory. He covered it in two different radio shows so obviously he considers it important.Vir 22:17, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
I added David Duke in the sense, the report shows. He has over 500 programs, and he deals with this "question" in 2 of them. This shows its importance for him. Hu1 22:18, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
He discusses this in two of his most recent shows. He also states that he has changed his mind on the Khazar theory so this is a new and important view for him. He has also supported MacDonald's theory more generally elsewhere as here very recently: [8] Vir 22:30, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
You seem to be against including David Duke because you personally believe that the Khazar theory is correct and you believe MacDonald's theory is wrong. However, such personal views should not reflect how we report on how others view the Khazar theory. Vir 22:31, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
I can mirror your second sentence: You believe MacDonald's theory is all right. You believe, that the Khazar theory is so important, and touch an existing article and demolish it, because of your personal believes. However, such personal views should not reflect how we report on how others view the Khazar theory.Hu1 22:55, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Do you know what is pilpul? Do you understand the question? Hu1 22:55, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
You believe that the Khazar theory is so correct and MacDonald's theory is so incorrect that you want to exclude David Duke's view on the subject. That is not how it is done. No, I do not know what a "pilpul" is. Regardless, we should not exclude David Duke's view on this simply because you personally dislike that he does not support you and because you do not like MacDonald's theory. Vir 23:15, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

The trouble here is that the Khazar theory is incompatible with MacDonald's theory which is supported by David Duke but opposed by Hu. But again, that should not stop us from reporting what David Duke thinks on these theories. Vir 23:31, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

500 millions Jews?

Where are they? Yes, German Metapedia says exactly the same thing but presents no sources for the claim. Jews do not have a high fertility, they have a low fertility which is why they have been declining in population share in many nations. Their high influence can be explained by factors such ethnic nepotism, excluding non-jews, and a high intelligence. Vir 11:42, 21 October 2012 (CEST)

Where? World wide, scattered among the poor, subjugated nations. In Israel and in the USA they have very high fertility. In Hungary for example Rákosi, the bolshevist murder was of a family of 11 children. Ana Pauker, the bolsevist in Romania also from a family of 8 children. There was no holocaust at all, it is a legend. Also pogroms are just legends. I consider high intelligence also as a legend, they try to popularize. They have their hate bible, talmud, that shows over examples, how the can cheat us. That is not intelligence. Hu1 11:58, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
Yes, Jews had historically a high fertility. But so did Europeans before infant mortality started to decline, so people felt less need to have children, and before there was effective contraception. For example, in the US the share of Jews have declined from 3.5% of the population in 1927 to 2% today. Obviously I cannot convince you if you believe that all statistics and IQ test results are fabricated. But then how do we know anything? 500 million is much larger than present population of the United States and almost as large as the whole population of Europe! Vir 12:14, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
In USA rabbies care for high fertility and punish jews, who have less than 4 children. Same for Israel. I myself knew an USA Jew with 4 children for exactly this reason. Statistics with jews is always falsified, they show much less than they really are. Hu1 12:22, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
If their power is so great that they can hide 485 million people from the official statistics, then why do they allow this page to exist? Vir 12:29, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
They visit us every day with their idiotic toothless trolls. 1 of 500 millions has always time to play idiotic plays. They dominate bolshevikipedia 100% Hu1 12:34, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
No doubt there are a lot of Jews there but that is not evidence for that 500 million Jews exist. There are several million Jews in the US alone and that is enough to do a lot of trolling. Vir 12:41, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
I also have not seen any evidence that 500 millions exist, but also none, that 500 million do not exist. When you switch on a TV, you think, the whole world is Jewish. (7 milliards). When you read bolshevikipedia, the same. Hu1 12:46, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
Yes, the Jews dominate the leasing positions in media. But that is not evidence for the number of Jews must be very high. It can be explained by factors such as Jews hiring Jews and not non-Jews. By just controlling the high positions Jews can have a very high influence without there needing to be enormous numbers of Jews. Vir 12:57, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
Just what Solshenitzyn told: No matter, where the non-Jew went, he always found a Jew of higher position than his own. This implies quite a number of jews. Both in bolshevism, and in the so-called democracies. Not to speak about this is again in Jewish interest Ah, we are so few, so poor, so helpless, so threaten, etc... Also here: You may add a sub section, in that you dispute the 500 million figure, but the elimination of its mention is not in the sense of Metapedia. Hu1 13:17, 21 October 2012 (CEST)Hu1 13:11, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
On the other hand, if there are extremely many Jews, then their influence is proportional to their numbers and not more remarkable than the influence of any other large population group. If they are 500 million they could likely form majority governments in many nations just by every Jew voting instead of hiding from the stastics. I will something regarding this. Vir 13:19, 21 October 2012 (CEST)
Both democracy married with capitalism and bolshevism married with stone age are purely jewish systems. So what do you want? Hu1 13:23, 21 October 2012 (CEST)

I don’t believe the 500 million world-wide number is correct and should be removed. Also the 6 million number always given for the US is probably a deliberate understatement. This figure has been frozen for decades. I would say the number in the US to be perhaps 9-10 million but this would be just an estimate on my part. If we can not source anyone challenging the official statistics then we should only say the official numbers are doubted by those who see the Jews as having a hidden agenda. - NatAll75 13:36, 21 October 2012 (CEST)

Agree. Vir 13:51, 21 October 2012 (CEST)

Orthodox Jews always have a higher fertility, than their environment. In Israel they have an extraorbitant number of children. Hu1 19:08, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

Not all Jews are Orthodox. Vir 19:22, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Did anybody say, that all Jews are orthodox? Hu1 19:33, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Low fertility for other Jews can compensate for high fertility of orthodox Jews. Even if we assume that the true number of Jews is double the stated it would only be 30 million. Not 500 million. Vir 19:37, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Just double is very underestimated. The minimum of their cheating is a factor of 10. They are 140 millions at least, but probably much more, that is 500 millions. We come always nearer to the reality.Hu1 19:46, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
That is just throwing out numbers without any support. Why not state 1 billion? Or 2?Vir 19:52, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

Personal experience

About Hungary: they say, they are 49.000. we have roughly 10 Million inhabitants. At my school time, in the ground school there were out of 34 about 4 Jews: >10%. In the secondary school there were out of 34 about 10 Jews: >25% At the University again ~10 %, of the teachers about 20%. Therefore they cheat factor 10..30. 1 Billion were factor 70, which does not correspond to the praxis. 500 millions are factor 35, which comes nearer to their cheat facter. But if we say, the cheat factor is 20, there 280 thousand Jews world wide, and this matches very well with my observations so far. Hu1 20:11, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

You will have to present better sources than unverifiable personal numbers if the goal is to convince anyone else. That there are a lot of Jews among university teachers do not mean that they are common in the general population. Vir 20:16, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

I know, Jews and Jewish lackeys are very clever in hiding real statistics and real numbers. The talmud itself forbids to count jews, and jews and jewish lackeys follow this strategy with devoted diligence. Hu1 20:21, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

You are not going to convince other people if you do not have good sources. Vir 20:24, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
I do not know better sources in this case, than personal experience. What is your personal experience: Ground school, Middle school, University, Other places, percentage of Jews, official Jews number in your country, Inhabitants in your country? Hu1 20:27, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

I do not know how many in my schools who were Jews. I have never seen any large scale masses of Jews but I have seen enormous number of immigrants flowing into my country with the support of the Jewish lobby. Vir 20:55, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

1. What is your country? Hu1 20:57, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
2. Are you not interested in Jews at all? Hu1 20:57, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Obviously I am interested since I am writing here.Vir 21:04, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
What is your country? Hu1 21:07, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Unimportant for hot many Jews there are worldwide. Personal experience is not going to convince other people regarding the correct worldwide numbers. Vir 21:13, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

I suggest that since both I and NatAll75 have supported removing the claim about 500 million that it should be removed and the text NatAll75 suggested regarding the uncertainty of the numbers should be added. Vir 21:24, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

David Duke think 13.75 is likely too low which should be added. But he does not mention 500 million.[9] Vir 21:27, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

Don't you understand English? What is your country? Hu1 21:33, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

See no reason to answer that in particular since you are incivil. You are a minority regarding the 500 million statement so I suggest we remove it. Vir 22:00, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
You are incivil. I give you a detailed personal statistic, and you answer with nothing saying ordinariness. Hu1 22:10, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
I will not give my country and personal details because of the government and regulations there. Clear enough? Regarding the 500 million statement I propose we remove it for the reason stated above. Vir 22:14, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Your text with the government and regulations is laughable. Hu1 22:50, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
It is generally well known, that the 14 million figure is absurd. Please search in this direction and let us know. Hu1 22:50, 22 October 2012 (CEST)
Actually, I have already given such a source by David Duke. But he does not support your claim of 500 million which also others here have agreed should be removed. Vir 23:16, 22 October 2012 (CEST)

Hu's conduct

Hu appears to want this page to be a personal essay controlled by him with no opposing views allowed, even by prominent White nationalists, if they contradict Hu's own personal views on things. He has hidden David Duke's view on the Khazar theory. He has hidden the opposing arguments against his own pet theory that there are an incredible 500 million Jews. This despite that other editors have argued that this number should be removed completely. Vir 12:11, 23 October 2012 (CEST)

Vir's conduct

Vir came some weeks ago as a new editor. He added so far very little to metapedia. He got very fast the admin rights. Vir tries to demolish existing, established articles by adding his judeophile opinions to them and completely deleting opinions and doubts, that are general in white national pages, that are worth of this name.

Vir is not willing to name his country with absolutely ridiculous argumentation. His overall discussion style is very Jewish like. He tries to sell his favourite ideas with "arguments" as as most recent, good sources and the like.

Vir tries to backbit other editors using the words pet ideas, Own personal views and the like about passages of established articles, he would like to demolish. Vir tries to mix up wordings of others, like Jews do it in their pilpul style.Hu1 17:37, 23 October 2012 (CEST)

Enter and upgrade of Vir and Atlantid

01:10, 4 August 2012 Atlantid (Talk | contribs | block) New user account ‎
00:59, 22 August 2012 NatAll75 (Talk | contribs | block) changed group membership for User:Atlantid from (none) to Administrators ‎
16:45, 26 August 2012 Vir (Talk | contribs | block) New user account ‎
03:12, 28 September 2012 NatAll75 (Talk | contribs | block) changed group membership for User:Vir from (none) to Administrators ‎
Vir's text
Nice. Those not agreeing with your own views on things must be Jewish. Does this include Kevin MacDonald and David Duke who also disagrees with you? Or NatAll75 who also thought that your ridiculous 500 million Jews number should be removed?Vir 12:48, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
Hu appears to want this page to be a personal essay controlled by him with no opposing views allowed, even by prominent White nationalists, if they contradict Hu's own personal views on things. He has hidden David Duke's view on the Khazar theory. He has hidden the opposing arguments against his own pet theory that there are an incredible 500 million Jews. This despite that other editors have argued that this number should be removed completely. Vir 12:50, 23 October 2012 (CEST)

Above debate

We should agree to disagree on this aspect, so long as we all agree that Jewishness is a plague on European society to be eliminated. Clearly, in national circles (across many different movements, in many different countries and languages), the Ashkenazis as Khazar position is the dominant one. "Mainstream" academia (ie - those in the pay of the judeo-masonic plutocracy) support Ashkenazis as Bronze Age Semites for reasons of political Zionism. The exact reason for Duke or MacDonald disagreeing with the main national view is unclear. Thus IMO their disagreement with the Khazar/Ashkenazi theory should be mentioned in the article body itself, but is not important enough to be within the intro. Basileus 13:34, 23 October 2012 (CEST)

The reason they disagree it that the Khazar theory is incompatible with the view that Jews have a genetically determined set of problematic behaviors. This is also exactly why some Jews have supported the Khazar theory. Vir 13:38, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
I have put the dispute part to the "Origins" section. I strongly agree, it fits much better there. Hu1 17:42, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
You have still hidden David Duke's view on the subject. As well as still including your own pet theory that there are 500 million Jews and hidden the opposing views regarding this. Vir 17:45, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
I think we should include that the Jews who have supported the Khazar theory, like Arthur Koestler in his book The Thirteenth Tribe, have done so since it contradicts the argument that Jews have problematic genetic traits. Vir 17:50, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
Do you have some sources that state this? Koestler himself does not say anything like that. Koestler was a journalist (and also a terrorist), who was interested in his own roots, and it was otherwise not logical, that there were that many Jews in the Russian Empire. Hu1 19:34, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
Obviously there is a reason for why Jews have supported this theory. It is the same reason that MacDonald and Duke opposes it. It invalidates any genetic arguments regarding Jews. Vir 20:01, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
Obviously. The reason can also be purely private curiosity of a journalist. Jews are allegedly also humans. At his time there was not that much genetic research. If you have sources for anything else, please let us know. Hu1 23:11, 23 October 2012 (CEST)


I have removed you pet theory that there are 500 million Jews since both I and NatAll75 have opposed including it. Vir 20:04, 23 October 2012 (CEST)

rolled it back again. I think the 500 million is very reasonable. (Galileo 20:06, 23 October 2012 (CEST)).
So there are two for and two against that there are 500 million Jews. I hope more people add their views. Vir 20:11, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
I told you that 14 million is absurd, and asked you to search for the real number. What are your results so far? Hu1 20:16, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
Yes, I also would like to know what number Vir has in mind. If for example he thinks there are 20 million world wide, I think he seriously underestimates their numbers. If he think there are 200 million, it starts to become more realistic. If he thinks there are 499 million, we are having a non-discussion. To wrap it up, he cannot just say that 500 million is wrong without giving his own estimate.(Galileo 20:22, 23 October 2012 (CEST)).
I have linked to the view by David Duke here: [10]. 13.75 million is likely too low. He does not speculate further. That is my view also. However, 500 million, much larger than the population of the United States, is absurd. One reason was already mentioned and was included in the article before Hu hid it. Vir 20:30, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
It is a world wide number. Why could the world wide number of jews not be larger than the population of the United States?(Galileo 20:37, 23 October 2012 (CEST)).
Vir wrote, that if Jews are 500 millions, they do not need to hide and ask open everywhere for their rights.
This is unfortunately a nonsense. The so called numerus clausus laws in Eastern Europe wanted to limit the proportion of all nations' students to their actual number. If for example there are 30% Jews in a country, than 30% of the medicine and law and other faculties students can be jews and no more. Exactly this law the jews considered as "unjust" and "anti-semitic". They want everything, and not just the amount of things, that corresponds to their number. Therefore they hide their number.Hu1 20:41, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
Since also Vir considers 14 million as too low, we have no problem any more. Hopefully he will search the right number and present us. Hu1 20:41, 23 October 2012 (CEST)

The whole population of Europe is 730 million. If there were 500 million Jews they would be visible everywhere. Furthermore, why do they not just participate in elections and wield enormous influence just by voting? In addition, covering up 500 million people requires so much resources that it becomes absurd. Why do they allow this page to exist if they can hide 485 million people? Vir 20:43, 23 October 2012 (CEST)

Jews in Europe are unfortunately everywhere visible. World wide are 500 millions, in Europe maybe 100 millions "only".
The whole EU is a jewish evil union.
Voting is very jewish, in europe, it decides almost nothing.
Jews come every several minutes to disturb this page with their toothless idiots. Hu1 20:51, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
@Vir, please do not repeat over and over what you told yesterday here. All can read. THis is not the synagoge, and this is not pilpul Hu1 20:53, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
There are certainly not 1 out 7 who are Jews in Europe unless they have hidden them somewhere. Maybe that or more in universities but that is not evidence for the general population. If they had that power they would just close this page down rather than bother with trolling. Why have they not done so? Furthermore, your clams that I must be Jewish because I disagree with you is ridiculous. Is NatAll75 also Jewish since he disagrees with you on the 500 million number? Vir 20:57, 23 October 2012 (CEST)

@vir Do you take some dope, and therefore you fail to understand others and express yourself understandable? Please come again, when you slept out your intoxication. Hu1 21:10, 23 October 2012 (CEST)

I see that you cannot answer my arguments so you fall back on personal insults instead. Vir 21:13, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
Why do you think, not every 7-th in europe is jewish? What is on that so unbelievable?
If the server were in Germany, they would switch off. The server is not there, therefore they must troll. Poor jews.
I say, you behave jewish, speak jewishly, bring ridiculous arguments, do very little constructive.
NatAll wrote hundreds or maybe thousands of original articles about american conservatives, you did not any. He never-ever demolished existing articles. You try to. He cares for a long time for the english section. You do not even delete trolls work. That is the difference. Hu1 21:18, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
I can see on the streets in Europe that not 1 out 7 is Jewish. If they can hide 485 million people worldwide and say 95 million people in Europe they should have no problem closing down a website. I care for the English section which is why I do not want us to be laughed at by touting ridiculous numbers of Jews. Stating 500 million simply makes Metapedia look bad. It is actually something a Jewish infiltrator could write just to make Metapedia look bad. Yes, I could do more on vandals; I will try to improve on that. Vir 21:41, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
You could not see even on your schoolmates, which is jewish, therefore I doubt you can see anything on the streets of Europe. This is no argument, sorry, especially not from you. Your superintelligent original-text using brilliant grammar:I do not know how many in my schools who were Jews.
You try to demolish the English section.
Please write here first any modification you want to put onto the page, that we can check it. Thank you. Hu1 21:50, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
I that you again cannot answer my arguments so you must instead use personal insults. Vir 21:55, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
A whiny jewish-stile answer to facts. For Jews nothing is as unpleasant as the truth. Hu1 21:59, 23 October 2012 (CEST)
Third time now? Still cannot answer politely but must use personal insults when lacking arguments. Vir 22:03, 23 October 2012 (CEST)

???

-"Enter and upgrade of Vir and Atlantid" - I am nothing to do with Vir, I've merely worked with him on a few pages on race. I also have no idea what the above discussion is about. Atlantid 18:25, 24 October 2012 (CEST)

Racial Types of Sephardi and Ashkenazi

Anyway since this discussion is about Jews, here is some information on the racial type of the Hebrews: "Historically the Jews of the Biblical period in Palestine were a Semitic-speaking people composed of various Mediterranean strains which had blended together at the time of the formation of the Jewish nation. These Mediterranean strains must have included a small Mediterranean type comparable to the present Yemeni Arabs; a taller, longer-faced strain with a tendency to nasal convexity, as is found among Irano-Afghan peoples today; and a straight-nosed, presumably Atlanto-Mediterranean element contributed by the Philistines". (Coon, 1939). The ancient Hebrews were predominantly Middle-Eastern Caucasoid Mediterranid blends (Irano-Afghan, Arabid) with some Armenoid admixture. The Sephardi Jews today are clearly close in lineage and phenotype to the ancient Hebrews, while the Ashkenazi have recieved substantial admixture from Caucasoid Europeans, and therefore in some cases can even pass as ethnic-Europeans. Through this admixture, around 30% of Ashkenazi are also blonde. Atlantid 19:19, 24 October 2012 (CEST)
To see where and when some Jews picked up the "Semitic nose" (actually a misnomer as it originated around Armenia) see Hattians. Atlantid 19:23, 24 October 2012 (CEST)
Interesting. Coon apparently did not believe in a Khazar origin for Ashkenazi. Vir 02:57, 25 October 2012 (CEST)

KMD really denies Khazar origin?

Dns jews.gif

File explanation: Fig. 2. MDS plot of populations based on Y-chromosome haplotype data. MDS was performed on a matrix of Chord values estimated on the basis of the frequencies of 18 Y-chromosome haplotypes in 29 populations. The three-letter population codes are defined in Subjects and Methods [see below]. Solid triangles represent Jewish populations, solid squares represent Middle Eastern populations, and open circles represent all other populations.

According to his dns table ( http://www.csulb.edu/~kmacd/346genetics.html ) ashkenazy jews are very near to Turks and Europeans, so what does he concretely deny, if anything at all?

If one denies the Khazar theory altogether, how does he explain following:

  1. from where are the many million Russian speakig jews?
  2. what happened to the Khazars? Why do we today not see Khazars? They were not a tiny nation.
  3. why are among the Ashkenazys so many with fair or red hair and light skin, blue or green eyes, whilst among the Sephardim this is fairly seldom?
  4. why use Ashkenazis jiddish as language?
  5. Why are Ashkenazys percentual much more than Sephardim?

In my eyes the statement he denies anything at all stands on clay feet. Hu1 23:25, 24 October 2012 (CEST)

First, let me say that I am ambivalent regarding either theory. There seem to be arguments for and against both. Regarding your arguments, yes, your plot it is ambiguous. See the plot here from more recent studies which are argued to speak against the Khazar theory. http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2012/07/who-are-the-jews/
  1. That may be a problem for the critics of the Khazar theory. Requires a rapid population growth for the immigrants from Southern Europe (and ultimately the Middle East) to Northern and Eastern Euorpe. Genetically it could be caused by the Ashkenazi Jews having acquired some traits such as high ethnocentrism, aggressiveness, and intelligence which allowed them to effectively acquire resources and multiply.
  2. The critics of Khazar theory argue that the conversion to Judaism was limited only to a small share of the population such as the nobility. The Khazars presumably did not disappear but lost their culture and become genetically mixed with surrounding groups such as the invading Mongolians (who in turn have "disappeared" after the Russian conquest).
  3. Some admixture with Europeans
  4. Presumably the same reasons the non-Ashkenazi Sephardi did not speak their original Hebrew language. Languages slowly evolves and changes over times, takes in some elements from the surrounding languages, etc.
  5. See 1.
Anyway, I think we should have a separate article on this important subject. I am working on one here. Suggestions welcome.
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/User:Vir/Sandbox Vir 02:54, 25 October 2012 (CEST)
"3.why are among the Ashkenazys so many with fair or red hair and light skin, blue or green eyes, whilst among the Sephardim this is fairly seldom?" - there are two possible answers: admixture with Europeans as Vir points out, or secondly localized adaptation to the more northern areas they settled. We know hair colour can lighten within a few generations. Jewish anthropologist Maurice Fishberg put out a detailed study on the racial types in Jews in 1911 entitled Jews, Race and Environment [11] which discusses both theories. The Jewish encyclopedia, 1925, vol. 6 p. 159 also notes of both theories and their anthropological supporters: "environment (Pruner, Cause Bey, Pritchard, Jacobs), while others of Blond attribute it to racial intermixture... particularly to the admission of Aryan blood into modern Jewry (Broca, Virchow, Schimmer, Ripley, and others)." - Personally i'm more with the latter, although local adaptation cannot be ruled out. Check though my article on King David's fair hair. Atlantid 03:57, 25 October 2012 (CEST)

The "more recent plot" shows exactly the same as the plot here: Ashkenazys are near to Turks and Europeans, while Palestinians not. This clearly indicates, that DNA evaluation proves the Khazar theory true, and does not contradict it in any way. So what?

Since Jews prefer cooperate with each other, a second language, jiddish is an obstacle to do that.

If the khazars did not have any cultural "shock", like the "religion" change of their noble class, why would they have stopped to care for their own country and mix with foreigners?

I do not think, Europeans were eager to mix in a large scale with jews during the so called "Middle age", when the christian church protected christians against such dangers. Jews also preferred to live in their ghettos, which also did not make intermixture easier.

In Hungary, Jews poured in great numbers between 1867 and 1919 into Hungary. They called themselves "Khazars", since there is a very valuable book from a Hungarian Journalist, Bartha Miklós "Kazárföldön" (In the land of the Khazars"), at the beginning if the 20-the century, when Koestler did not even exist. The book describes Jewish activities and behaviour in Hungary at that time. If they called themselves "Khazars", why did they do that? Why does a group use a certain name for itself?

Hu1 11:42, 25 October 2012 (CEST)

The recent plot says nothing about Turks but talks about Turkish Sephardim which is something quite different. The Sepahardi and Ashkenazi cluster together which would not be expected if the Ashkenazi were Khazars. The Palestinians and the Adygei (people in Caucasus who may be seen as a proxy for the Khazars) are both quite distant in the first graph. The Ashkenazi are closer to North Italians than to Adygei according to the graph. When a people is conquered, like the Khazars and later the Mongols they may not be allowed to keep their culture and forced to mix with the the conquerors. History is full of people who have "disappeared" after conquest by another people. Regarding Jewish admixture with Europeans, converting to Judaism in order to marry a wealthy Jew may have seem preferable to starvation. Admixture may also be due to rapes. The Khazar theory existed before Koestler. That some historical Jews have argued that they are descended from Khazars does not necessarily always prove that this is the case or that the Khazars were more than a minor genetic influence. But it is one point in favor for the Khazar theory.Vir 11:59, 25 October 2012 (CEST)
"Coon apparently did not believe in a Khazar origin for Ashkenazi". No genuine scholars do of any field. The "Khazar-Jew" theory is a pseudo-historical conspiracy theory, its only support is among "fringe" (to be polite, or pardon my manners - whackjobs) such as Christian Identity proponents. Atlantid 13:30, 25 October 2012 (CEST)

Regarding the North Italian/Turk genetic thing, this is especially prevelent in Tuscany. This is likely because there was a widespread practice of Italians around this area having Turko-Mongol/Tatar slaves and concubines, during the 14th and 15th century (Leonardo da Vinci's mother is said to have been one). About "mainstream" positions, well, no "mainstream" book on economics is going to mention "Hook nosed Ashkenazi Jews from the Schiff and Warburg families founded the Federal Reserve in 1913" or "The Rothschild crime syndicate dominated Europe during the 19th century", but these things are still completely true facts of history.

One important thing to note is that in the Anglosphere, where much of the early modern literature on race comes from, there is a poisonous cultural strain of Judeophilia, nurtured by Old Testament-admiring Protestantism and Freemasonry; just because these men were writing things about race which are now politically incorrect doesn't mean that they weren't somehow pro-Jewish, or otherwise simply didn't investigate this question thoroughly enough (focusing more on differences between Europeans, Africans and Asians). Basileus 14:12, 25 October 2012 (CEST)

What is the source for that that there "was a widespread practice of Italians around this area having Turko-Mongol/Tatar slaves and concubines, during the 14th and 15th century"? Anyhow, even if was true that some rich cold afford importing such persons it would not affect the general North Italian genetics except minimally. Vir 14:20, 25 October 2012 (CEST)
"Just as slavery waned in northern Europe, it re-established a foothold in Italy. The slavery of Mongols in Tuscany during the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries was so common that even a shopkeeper or notary's wife would often have one slave, and more prosperous nobles and merchants had several. This influx of slaves flooded Tuscany largerly after the recurrent waves of the Black Death."
- Robert Odell Bork, page 86, "The art, science, and technology of medieval travel" (2008). I first recall reading it in another book about Medici-era Florence, but can't remember what it was called. Basileus 14:50, 25 October 2012 (CEST)
That is just one area in Italy and that the overwhelming majority (peasants) could never afford a slave. Regardless, if the North Italians were very similar to Mongols or Turks genetically it would have been detected by plots such as the discussed above. Also, a genetic influence from Mongols/Turks on the North Italians do not explain why the North Italians are closer to the Ashkenazi than the Adygei are. Or why the Turkish Sephardim are much closer to the Ashkenazi than the Adygei . Vir 14:59, 25 October 2012 (CEST)
It is the same in Genoa and to a lesser extent in other areas like Venice. Obviously this doesn't mean Italians are anything like majority Tatar/Mongol (a lot of the upper class nobility by medieval times were Germanic in origin, including the likes of Thomas Aquinas), but it explains why they're genetically closer on the graph to Turks & Ashkenazis (Khazars) than some other European nations are. Basileus 15:04, 25 October 2012 (CEST)
Still could only affect only a very small minority even in those areas. Peasants could never afford foreign slaves. Does not explain why the North Italians are closer to the Ashkenazi than the Adygei who are a proxy for the Khazars. Or why the Turkish Sephardim are much closer to the Ashkenazi than the Adygei. If the Khazar theory was true then the Adygei would be the closest to the Ashkenazi. Furthermore, the Ashkenazi and the Sephardi would be clearly separated since they have different racial origins. Vir 15:08, 25 October 2012 (CEST)
Perhaps there has been miscegenation between Turkic peoples and Sephardim in the Ottoman Empire? There is evidence of the Jews trying to hide into the general Turkish population, for example the Dönmeh crypto-Jews. I was under the impression that the Circassians were Caucasians in origin like the Armenians and Georgians, rather than a Turkic subgroup, whatever their former political alliances? Basileus 15:14, 25 October 2012 (CEST)
Regarding the Adygei, if one does not think they are a good proxy for the Khazars one can maybe dismiss that argument. Regarding the Sephardim, not all Sephardim lived in areas where Turks lived. That a large share of Sephardim are actually Turks seem incredible. Why would they intermarry mainly with Turks and not other groups in the areas they lived in?Vir 15:30, 25 October 2012 (CEST)

I have the impression, that the paying masters ordered KMD to deny the Khazar theory using DNA. Unluckily, DNA proves the Khazar theory instead of disproving it, but since his masters ordered to do so, he denies it, thinking, that the stupid goys anyway would not recognize this little swindle. He even tries to convince David Duke, for whom this whole play is of absolutely minor importance. Hu1 18:56, 25 October 2012 (CEST)

Even Vir argues for the Khazar theory, saying, Sephardim did not intermarry in large numbers with Turks. Not with Turks, but with Khazars, as it is well known since ages. Hu1 18:56, 25 October 2012 (CEST)

Sephardic Jews may well have some intermarriage with Turks but that is should be so much that Sephardic Jews are almost identically genetically with the Khazars is a strange idea considering that Sephardic Jews have lived an many different areas with many different people. You have an unfortunate tendency to accuse anyone not agreeing with your own personal beliefs of being part of a Jewish conspiracy. Anyone reading Kevin MacDonald's works will find your suggestion ridiculously absurd. Furthermore, so long as this page proclaims nonsense such as there being 500 millions Jews no one will take anything else we say regarding Jew seriously but at most go here to have a good laugh. Vir 19:09, 25 October 2012 (CEST)

1. Your going into personal is very jewish. Typical.

2. From a person, who can't even distingvish between jewish and non jewish classmates, the above text is absolutely ridiculous. You can not present any valid argument against the 500 millions, don't you see? You proclaim nonsense, by trying to fight against the 500 millions without the slightest valid argument.

3. Could you put the exact wording of KMD here, where he denies the Khazar theory? Exactly how does he argue? Please try to be brief. Hu1 19:26, 25 October 2012 (CEST)

You have not presented any evidence for there being 500 million Jews except your own personal belief that this is the truth. That will convince very few people but instead just makes Metapedia look bad. Have already given quotes by Kevin MacDonald and David Duke above as you well know. Vir 19:34, 25 October 2012 (CEST)

[12] 47:55-49:07 KMD explains, that the Jews are one race, there is no difference between Ashkenazis and Sephardim, which clearly contradicts the genetic results, contradicts historical knowledge, contradicts physical reality, contradicts distribution of Jews in Europe, but this is, what his masters want him to say. And obviously there are goys, who are stupid enough, and do not recognize, what nonsense they are fed with. Hu1 20:00, 25 October 2012 (CEST)

If you have read any works by Kevin MacDonald you would understand that accusing him of being their puppet is absurd. The genetic results clearly show that Ashkenazis and Sephardim are very closely related which contradicts the Khazar theory which predicts that the Ashkenazi Jews(=Khazars) and Sephardic Jews(=not Khazars) would be substantially different genetically. Yes, there are also arguments supporting the Khazar theory. The article ought to present both views neutrally considering that such prominent persons as David Duke and Kevin MacDonald have argued against the Khazar theory.Vir 20:09, 25 October 2012 (CEST)

I have heard what KMD says, and I see the genetic results above. They clearly show, that ashkenazys and sephards are different, and Turks (Khazar) are nearer to ashkenazies, than other sephards.

The article is very good as it is, and it should not contain any unlogical nonsense. You can write an independent article, where you logically explain what KMD or whoever says, but please, do not touch this article.

Also you can write an independent article where you explain, how you count the Jews world wide and what is your estimation of their correct number and explain that, but please do not touch this article also in this subject. Hu1 20:34, 25 October 2012 (CEST)

Page has been protected since forever. It needs this poem

"I See The Jew" - A Poem

When I see the filth my children watch on TV and in the movies, I see the work of the Jew

When I see the murder of millions from communism and two world wars I see the Jew

When I see the coming of a third world war I see the Jew

When I see our monetary system hijacked by the Federal Reserve I see the Jew

When I see the majority of the Democrats’ funds and the majority of the Republicans’ funds are both being received from AIPAC I see the Jew

When I see my people portrayed as evil and idiotic on sitcoms, and movies, and commercials, I see the jew

When I see 30 million illegal aliens from Mexico crossing our unguarded borders, and driving wages down, and bankrupting our hospitals, and creating ganglands in our cities, I see the Jew

When I see the tremendous tax burden on my people I see the Jew

When I see the looming Federal deficit I see the Jew

When I see the murder of innocent Americans in false flag attacks in the Lavon Affair, and the King David Hotel, and the USS Liberty, and the controlled demolition of the World Trade Center, I see the Jew

When I see the banishment of nativity scenes, the Ten Commandments removed from courthouses, the word “Christmas” replaced by “Holiday,” Washington and Lincoln's birthday combined into President’s Day, and the enactment of a Federal holiday for Martin Luther King, a communist, I see the Jew

When I see my children taught to honour anti-heroes and being told falsehoods about their own history and being made to feel guilty for it I see the Jew

You should too!

How to recognise and identify a jew

These are good links, though I admit I still have trouble with mixed jews. http://servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/~gbpprorg/obama/nytimes_ww2/How_to_Recognize_and_Identify_a_Jew-Part_1.pdf http://servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/~gbpprorg/obama/nytimes_ww2/How_to_Recognize_and_Identify_a_Jew-Part_2.pdf I am suggesting them for external links. They are a little offensive so maybe browse them first. If they are too offensive, then perhaps mentioning in the article they usually have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prognathism ? A Wyatt Man 22:10, 31 May 2013 (CEST)

That's good and accurate info. It also lends weight to the idea that Jews are a racial type(s) (albeit a bit fuzzy) in addition to a religious group. I hope this material is added. Maybe the main points can be summarized in bullet form. Mikemikev 03:43, 1 June 2013 (CEST)

Jewish piano

http://x.vukajlija.com/var/products/posters/201110/300885/jewish-piano.jpg I think we should add it. --Valerios12345 23:00, 27 May 2014 (CEST)

 :-)) Hu1 01:06, 28 May 2014 (CEST)

Nonsense population numbers removed

See the discussions here: [13][14] Upplysning 20:20, 14 November 2014 (CET)

I wasn't paying attention to the argument before but I had a look now. The 500 million sounds really odd. There's about a billion non-hispanic whites (real whites, mestizos and mongrels claim to be "white" on censuses a lot). 500 million jews would mean half of all white people are secretly jews. To my knowledge, before jews starting becoming secular jews (atheists and agnostics) they were tightly under the control of rabbis who even executed heretics and the offspring of half-jews stayed in the jew group to breed among themselves. Also OFFICIAL jewish population figures in Europe (I wish I had the graph, I saw it on a Stormfront post somewhere) grew steadily in a straight line and then in 1920 suddenly spiked like crazy and then dropped after 1945, making it sound really suspicious that the numbers were all skewed with a fake increase when ignoring the spike it was like the population just grew steady as usual. I hope the previous sentence made sense, if I had the graphs it would be easier to explain. But anyway it was something like there was only 11-14 million of them in Europe around 1930 (I forgot the exact number), there's a quote from Ronald Reagan saying they only had 16 million to begin with. A Wyatt Man 13:07, 19 November 2014 (CET)
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